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Ep N° 18: Planning a marketing mix that works for more of your customers (with Bianca Blake)

Sonia: Hi Bianca, thanks so much for joining me today. How are you doing?

Bianca: All right, Sonia. Thanks for having me.

Sonia: My pleasure. All right. Well tell the people who are you and what do you do?

Bianca: So I am beyond good Blake. I’m the co-founder and marketing lead at Clicker, Clicker is, is my company. As I just mentioned my Clicker, we exist at the intersection of software development and marketing. So we work in a couple of different ways, but our primary capability is that we built a software that supports company companies in sending text message communication. We also have a software development arm and a marketing strategy arm, but we’ve put those two things together to commercialize this software that helps people, as I mentioned before, it’s in bulk text messages.

Sonia: Okay. So why should business leaders start thinking more about text messaging as a part of the marketing mix? I mean, we hear people talking more and more about texting. I see a lot of people online, particularly in the online world saying text me, text me. I haven’t quite done that yet, but why should more, more of us start thinking about texting text marketing?

Bianca: Well, it is a channel just like all of the other channels in the marketing mix. So it should be used appropriately, right? It’s not going to completely just replace your entire marketing mix, but the reason why business leaders should start thinking more about texts is that it is a way to cut through the clutter of a lot of the other messages. Consumers are being bombarded with these days, right? It’s intimate. It gets you much closer in to your audiences. It’s simple. It requires much less production. It requires, you know, literally a few characters of text, right? And one of the things that I think people are overlooking is that it does not require you to create an account log in and a password and all that. It doesn’t require you to download an app. It doesn’t require a smartphone. Literally it is very, very simple as alpha numeric text messages, right? And it, it rides over a federally regulated infrastructure, which is the, the telecom infrastructure. So unlike private companies who commercialize apps and all of the questions around what are people doing with my data, so on and so forth, texting literally goes over a federally regulated infrastructure. So you can worry a little bit less about who is this company, you know, what are they doing? My data, how is this app using this? Oh, I gotta click this little button on terms and conditions. I didn’t read it. It is the same telecom infrastructure that we use to make phone calls. So that is a little bit technical, but it does matter. And I think the more and more people start to understand and become more engaged with conversations about first party data. I know companies are concerned about it from a compliance standpoint and audiences, consumers, patients, etcetera, are starting to be more concerned about it. So I think that that conversation is at the beginning, but it’s only going to get more intense as you know, the powers that be started cracking down on companies about how they’re using data.

Sonia: Absolutely. It’s fascinating. I think there’s a lot of different things to consider now, as we start to think about texting from an inclusivity standpoint, I know that as we’re a lot of business leaders and marketers are thinking about making sure that they’re broad, they’re broadening the generations that they’re trying to speak to their most often, thinking about the younger generations that grow have grown up with digital, like gen Z as soon to be gen alpha, even probably some of the younger millennials, but you sent me a statistic a little while ago, that kind of stopped me in my tracks where it says that one third of people over the age of 65 use a smartphone. And I found that mind blowing. And the more that I thought about it, I was taken back to some research that I did with a client late last year. And they were trying to get folks in their network vaccinated for COVID.

And they were asking them about texts, options, and the people who are older that I interviewed, they were very open to receiving to text messaging. And I was like, oh, like that, I was really starting to connect the dots. And I thought that why, why is assists this statistic and this kind of insight about older generations? Why is that so important to marketers from an inclusion standpoint, as we’re starting to think about how to engage in reach everybody in their audience, not just the younger generations.

Bianca: Yeah. That’s a great question. And, and it’s, and it is fabulous to see statistics come to life, isn’t it. And then you see it and you’re like, oh, and you think to yourself, you can probably think of someone, you know, that’s over the age of 65, maybe someone that’s 75 years old and it begins to make a little bit more sense. So the statistic is from, I believe pew, the pew research center, they did a study and they found that about a third of people over the age of 65, do not use a smartphone. So about two thirds of them do use a smartphone. And a third of them do not use a smartphone. And we’re talking about a group of people that are, that as you mentioned, are not digital natives, right? So they had to learn all of this technology. They had to learn apps. They had to learn, you know, touch, screen phones, et cetera. They’ve been on this entire journey. And a lot of them are not forced to do so for the sake of their careers, right? It’s they, they are using these technologies to help them connect with friends and families more in a social environment. So their desire to, to become, you know, digital experts is, is kind of its, you know, it’s not like they just are like, maybe I will. Maybe I won’t, there’s not the same level of, of motivation there. So it is important. These consumers are consumers. They have time. Most, a lot of them have resources. You know, many of them are looking to engage with your services and your products, but are they going to download an app on their smartphone? Are they going to create an account? Are they going to be the most, you know, some of the things that we take for granted, even as a software development company that we take for granted, oh, you just upload this file. Or you just create an account. And imagine that the folks that were thinking about managing passwords, imagine us managing passwords, managing anybody, having to manage passwords when you create an account. So I, I’m not going to pick on my 65 and older friends as I answered this question because that statistic is true. But I will say this as far as inclusion is concerned, not all people, adults in America have smartphones. A lot of people still do use feature phones for, for a variety of reasons, right? Feature phones, being the ones that you have to, you have to press the button multiple times to get the letter you want. Right? And, and the ones of us who do have smartphones, some of us do not have enough memory to be downloading your app or enough data to be constantly streaming the internet. You would think from the advertisements that you see that everyone has got unlimited data, everyone’s got all this space on their smartphone. Everyone does not. And the ones of us who do have the data, we don’t want to download another app. You know, some people that we, so you have to think of this almost like the marketing funnel, right. Of the people who do have phones, which of them have smartphones of the ones who have smartphones, which of them have enough data to be using them for emails. And, you know, some, some people believe it or not. This is going to knock your socks off. Sonia People do use their phones for the functionality of a phone. Yeah. There you go. So when you’re talking about being inclusive and you’re reaching out to people on a, in a channel that is, that lends itself to digital, you know, you got to think about the group of people that would lean towards using their digital devices, their mobile devices as actual phones. So you’re talking about calls and you’re talking about texts. You may not be talking about apps. You may not be talking about emails as much.

So when you’re, when you’re really thinking about who was going to receive this message. Wanna include everybody, especially the message across It.

Sonia: I think it really kind of forces you to have a different, to think, expand your thinking about what it means to be inclusive. Because I think people’s default about inclusivity is race, gender. Sometimes they think about age, but I think that it’s, and I guess this kind of goes along the lines of marketing segmentation. It’s just that we all have differences. And those differences inform how we engage with the world period. And sometimes those differences impact how we engage with different forms of technology. So as we’re thinking about how do we make people feel like they belong? Sometimes that means acknowledging that not everybody engages with digital in the same way, so let’s not force them to. So let’s give them additional options to engage in a way that is more conducive to their preferences and sometimes needs, I might imagine.

Bianca: Absolutely. Because even if you’re talking back to the over 65 group for the ones that do have smartphones, do they prefer, you know, to, to respond to a text message or do they prefer to answer an email or, you know, some of the other channels that you may be, you know, ushering them over to as far as brand engagement. So, right. It’s one thing as far as your functional capability. It’s another thing when you start looking at preferences and that is across the board, even I would, I would venture to guess that there’s a statistic there somewhere that could point us to across the board in every generation, you have a sub segment of people that just do not want to engage with certain channels would be more preferable to them to engage with other channels.

Sonia: So I did had a call with somebody recently that I met and we were, we were setting up a call to just get to know each other a little bit better. And I was like, send me your email. I’ll send you a calendar invite. And she’s like, actually I don’t have my email connected to my calendar and all that kind of stuff. I’m going to do it the old fashioned way. And she wrote it down in her physical calendar that works for her. So instead of me like forcing her, but this is the way I know it was just more of adjusting to this is how she operates. This is how she prefers. And let me just accept that. And we both find a way to do what works best for each of us in that situation. And I think that as we start to make it to where it’s never a one size fits all approach and that despite all the trends from a digital standpoint, there are still very much people who are like, I prefer to do it this way.

Bianca: Yeah. And you might find that those might be some of your most valuable customers. They may be the ones willing to engage with your brand the most, you know, and create even more of a relationship with your brand and a conversation with your ex, you know, with your, your reps and things like that. But, you know, if you’re, if you’re not communicating with them the way they prefer to be communicated with, you might miss some of that richness.

Sonia: Yeah. Are there other specific types of customers that can benefit more from text marketing than others? I’m thinking about this from an accessibility standpoint in particular? I don’t know if that’s true or not. I’m just wondering if you’ve heard anything. Have you seen anything as you were talking about things like passwords? I was like, oh, that could be something that is even more cumbersome. So I imagined that maybe some people who are even neuro dark Virgin in some ways might think that this is even an easier way to engage, because it doesn’t require all these additional things to be able to use and engage.

Bianca: Yeah. I mean, I know that, I know that there are some, you know, populations that would benefit from reading communication versus trying to hear it, you know, and I know that they have, you know, special telephone devices that can convert language or, you know, audio into visuals for those groups. But texting could be a good option as well for, for those groups.

And then yes, to your point of not having to deal with so much of account creation and password management and things like that, there’ll be groups of people where that would be more appropriate. Another group, I think is interesting are people who are, who are less likely to want to engage in social formalities. So I’m not going to pinpoint any specific group. There’s a lot of people, you know, like we mentioned, we find with our clients, they would prefer not to engage with like our account management is it looks a lot different than what you might expect. Customer service would look like, especially back in the day, you know, you have the call center and it’s like, oh, hi, how are you doing today? What’s the weather like?  some people do not want to engage in all those presentations. They’re like, this is my issue. Can you fix it or not hearing the fix for it? So you have chat bots that help with this. You know, you have text messaging that helps with this. So it, it literally cuts through all of the salutations, all the greeting, all the social norms and with those social norms, since we’re talking about inclusivity, it can, it can lessen the need for you to have to show up in a certain way. So that connect on those social norm levels with your audiences. So demographics is the geographics is cultural and all that happens in greetings and salutations. But if you cut all of that out, you could literally take away your need to, you know, kind of solve for those softer issues and just focus in on, you know, your reservation is, you know, are you going to be here on that?

Sonia: Yeah,

Bianca: here’s a promotion. Here’s a coupon code, use it or not as well. Hi. And we noticed that here it is, this is what it is.

Sonia: I like this. I think that this could be something that’s very applicable for people who are learning a new language and having to talk to a live person is nerve wracking for them. I think about Jonathan, sometimes he could, he would totally be all about text messaging in that case. But also I was talking to a colleague in this space, Sabrina I’m met her Allie, and she’s all about inclusive product design. And she told me about a, an example of a grocery store. I think it was in Australia, they created quiet hours. So they opened their store, I think, an hour early and they didn’t have any music overhead. They didn’t have all these other social type of things that would overstimulate some people. And they were surprised by the number of people who started engaging in it. So this whole social aspect of it and giving people an option to opt out by just getting very specific and to the point with how they’re communicating, how they’re shopping, how they’re being reminded about appointments or confirming appointments. I think that’s a beautiful thing. And it, it probably empowers a number of people who were very relieved of now not having to show up in a very specific kind of way.

Bianca: On both sides, right on the customer side. And on the brand side, the brand doesn’t need to produce some storytelling, epic cinematic masterpiece, just to say, Hey, you know, here’s a coupon and the recipient of that doesn’t need to, you know, dig through lots of communication that may or may not be confusing depending on the way they prefer to communicate, to figure out what piece of this do I actually need. And then what do you want me to do with it? Right.

Sonia:  I love this. I love this. It’s like my mind is being expanded, like in so many different ways. Like these little explosions of, oh, we’re going up. All right. I heard you mentioned customer intimacy before. We’re all about customer intimacy around these parts. I just feel like it’s an unfair advantage of any brand. And it’s really a core component of inclusive marketing. How does text messaging help, help brands develop a deeper degree of intimacy with the people that they’re want to serve?

Bianca: Oh, that’s a, that’s a great question. So I think when, when I think of the marketing mix, right, I like to think I have, I paint this picture in my mind of the audience or the consumer that you’re trying to meet living inside of their, you know, happily living inside of their bubble, their life. They’re just kind of going on about their, their business and as various brands or organizations trying to communicate with them, we have different channels available to us and they are, they engage with customers at a, at a variety of levels as it pertains to their life, their bubble. Right? So you have some more passive channels, like you might think of out of home or, you know, TV ads that are, they’re actually on TV in between, in between the ad segments. So those are more passive. If you see him, you see him, if you engage with them, you do, if you don’t, you don’t, it is what it is. Then you have some that kind of a little bit more, I don’t want to say intrusive, but they’re closer in, right? So you have your social media feeds where you have like ad pop-up there. You’re just like, okay. You know, so texting gets even more, even closer. So they come, you know, they’re not on the outside of the bubble, not on the outside of the house, looking in, you’ve actually asked for permission to go inside of this. Consumer’s, you know, metaphorical house, if you will. And almost like sit right there with them at their dinner table, with their family. So think of the, the text messages that your audience is receiving. They’re receiving messages from their spouse. They’re receiving messages from their parents. They’re receiving messages from their sister and brother and children and friends and families. And so you are joining this level of communication, which is, is the most intimate you’re on this device that people are taking with them to the bathroom. Where do we go without us, without that, without our smartphones or, or feed feature phones, even. So you’re right there with them at all times, and which is important for you to, to have the permission of the person to message him. So when you’re providing any level of message that you’ve asked for permission to provide by default, you’re closer in than you would, would be. If you’re just simply not simply, it is takes a lot of work to do an out-of-home campaign. So I’m not minimizing that, but it’s less intimate. It’s, it’s more passive. Right? So, so I think of it that way. I think of the idea of you kind of waltzing right on into someone breaking bread with them, right at their table, having a more conversation with them, which means that the messaging you send through this channel has to be, it has to be very intentional. It has to meet the requirement of that channel. Right. You’ve asked for permission to be there. So imagine someone sitting at your dinner table and you’re like, Hey Jonathan, how was your day? Oh yeah. You know, Luna said this word, you know, you guys are having a very intimate family conversation and there goes the brands saying 20%, that would just be very like, no, you wouldn’t necessarily want that. What you might want is, Hey, did you know that it’s time to check into your flight? Or, you know, and, and even if it is a promotion, that’s okay. It just needs to be done in a way where, you know, it’s, it’s relevant to something that is, that need that you need to know real time or, Hey guys, just so you know, for the next hour we’re offering this promotion. If it’s something that’s evergreen or something that you can get to tomorrow, then you question yourself, does a text message. That’s going to be seen in real time, is that the right channel? But if it is something like, I don’t know if you know any sneakerheads, but some, some of these folks are, you know, willing to stand in line for hours to get these limited edition, whether it’s fashion items, whether it’s flights, you know, flight deals, it’s a flight deal. You know, that’s a flash sale. You might want to text someone like, Hey, I know you’re having dinner, but this thing is going to, so I think you need to make sure that you’re met. The point is here is intimacy is achievable through texting because of the nature of the medium. However, just like all other marketing channels, the message has to match the medium or else you’re going to get booted fairly. Okay.

Sonia: Yeah, Yeah. I can think about the brands who have my phone number and they send me messages that are, Hey, we’re having a sale or, Hey, it’s 20% off. I just ignore them. I don’t even open them. I see them. I’m aware of them, but I don’t ever act on them. But when they’re ones that are, like you said to the intimacy with regards to, oh, you need to check in for your dentist appointment, you know, here’s a another, like, there’s, there’s other ones that are very useful, not necessarily in the importance, but they make it convenient for me. Or they are adding value in a very clear way. I know some people I’ve seen on social, like to get text messages from different brands that they follow, because they’re like inspirational messages or things like that, that have that degree of intimacy for them. But yeah, I really liked that. You’re making that distinction about having to respect the, the medium and what people are doing with that medium and building a plan or a strategy that kind of makes sure that you’re taking into account how to best use it. And versus just, this is another way to spam people.

Bianca: Marketing is important, right? So as marketers is why having, you know, a bit of strategy behind the message that you said, knowing who’s on the other side of that, is there, is this a person who prefers text messages that, you know, knowing the demographic that the geographic location of the person and what you intend for them to do after they receive that text message? Is it, is it just something that’s nice for them to know? You know, are you sending them because ideally when someone’s that close in and building that level of intimacy, intimacy comes from, it’s almost like you’re thinking of the other person at either at, at the same level, or even maybe a little bit more than you thinking of yourself, right? So the airline that texts you, Hey, it’s time to check in, they’re doing you a solid then dentist, they’ll text you, Hey, your, your appointment is tomorrow. I’ll make sure, you know, confirm they’re, they’re doing you a solid, we have a, we have a company that, that is in the business of delivering those huge five gallon, you know, water bottles. And they deliver them to businesses. But specifically for their residential clients, they text them and say, Hey, do you need a delivery tomorrow? We’re going to be out your area. So it’s helpful for the company and for the customer to have it. Cause you don’t want someone showing up at your door trying to sell you this, you don’t need, but you also want to make sure if you need to, when they only brought one. So it’s, it’s the intimacy is the intimacy is there because they’ve, they’re having an ongoing conversation, you know, with their customers, as opposed to just assuming that, because you signed up for this service, you’re going to need the same thing every time. And that’s that, to me, that’s a really great example of how to use it. And they could potentially use it for also for promotions, you know, buy two of these and get this one for and so on and so forth. But they’ve built the intimacy by depositing into the relationship jar. So when they decide to, you know, maybe promote, like we look peer to peer texting and apt to peer, which is what we’re talking about texting is, is it’s different, but the principles are the same. So you might have a friend that text you or call you or your relationship with them is great. And then if they do something, that’s not quite that great. As long as they’ve deposited enough in the relationship bank account, if you will, when they do something, that’s a little bit like, huh, I didn’t expect that there’s enough there for you to continue the relationship, right. As opposed to, if off the bat you give some, you meet us, someone at a conference and you’re like, oh, this is going to be great. And then they start saying, well, Hey Sonia. And then all, all of the things that you don’t want and that’s peer to peer. So if you think of it that way as a brand, an app, if you will, even though, as I mentioned before, it’s not quite an app, but we call it an app to peer, as opposed to peer, to peer the business, to consumer texting. If you think of it that way, how texting is used to build intimacy and your personal relationships, you can actually use it in that same way to build customer relationships.

Sonia: Absolutely. So I think you, you kind of answered it a little bit here with what you were just talking about, but I view inclusive marketing and customer experience as inseparable twins. Do you have any other thoughts on how brands can use text marketing specifically to deliver a better experience to a broader group of customers keeping in mind that so many of them have so many differences?

Bianca: Well, yeah, I think the, the analogy that I like to use is like, you know, you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t drive a bicycle on the highway and you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t, you know, drive a semi-truck and the bicycle lane. Right? So you, you want to make sure you’re using the medium in the right way. And I think that if you’re, if you’re doing that, then it’s, it will include as many people because inclusion to your point is not always about demographics. Sometimes it’s about giving people the option to engage in a way that they prefer. And not assuming that just because they have the ability to functional ability to engage in the way that you’ve asked them to engage with that’s their preference. So I do think that the experience of receiving a text message that is, and we can talk about the proper anatomy of a text message, but you know, that, that is that, that has the right message. Has the, I won’t say right, I’ll say optimal. That has the optimal message, you know, that, that is cognizant of where the recipient is along the journey of whatever it is that you’re trying to do, whether it’s reservations and notifications, whether it’s customer service, whether it’s promotions, you know, that you’re cognizant of where are they, are they just learning about my service or are they a customer that I’ve had for years? You know, not just sending generic information, but these, this is marketing 1 0 1, right? This is you. You want to target and, and make sure that the message that you’re sending in the channel is appropriate for the channel, right. Which will increase the customer experience. You want to use texting as part of an overall marketing campaign, not just a one-off, if you can help it, you know, the experience would be helpful to make sure that you’re sending the recipient of the message to some sort of, you know, call to action. You’re asking them to do something. And it’s clear whether it’s to respond with a yes or no. I’m coming to my appointment, whether it’s a click on a URL to be, you know, served up some sort of experience. I think that’s all part of it. Just making sure that the text in and of itself is a means to an end. It’s not the communication itself. It’s not an advertisement. It’s not, it’s not a banner ad. You know what I mean? It, it is, it’s a, it’s a, almost like a portal to get them to where you want them to go and where they ultimately should want to go. Right?

Sonia:  Absolutely. This has been so good. Any recommendations for people who want to start dipping their toes and the text marketing waters and how they should get started and how they should be thinking about that from an inclusivity standpoint.

Bianca: Yeah. So for one, I would just, I would just think I would, I would encourage people who are looking to start a texting program to not be intimidated, right. It can feel a little bit, I’ve heard some people say it feels a little bit icky as a brand to be texting people. And I think what, what I, what I interpret when I hear that is I’m getting too close and I don’t have the permission to be that close. I don’t want to erode my brand equity or my organization’s credibility by being that close. But just remember that if you’re providing people information that they actually do want texting is, is a, is a great channel. You know, it’s great for real-time communication is great for people who do not read their email, even though they have it. It’s great for folks who, you know, do not have smartphones, you know, so there are populations out there who would be much more likely to engage with texts versus like, if you were to ask them, do you want to download an app? You know, do you want to log in to some portal? Or do you want to, or do you want to receive a text message? So, so thinking of it in the way of, of how people are engaging with your

communications and what those communications are meant to have them do, I would say ultimately to think through texting as a business or organization in a very similar way, as you think through peer to peer texting some of the principles that we, that we work with our clients on are trying to, to craft the perfect text message, right? So you want to make sure you identify yourself. So these are just some very tactical things. If you, if you start a text messaging program, make sure you do these things. You want to identify yourself in the message. Hi, it’s Bianca, Bianca, colon, or Bianca from Clicker. That kind of thing. You want to make sure that you welcome people. If it’s the first time you sent a message to them. Yeah. Thanks for signing up. Something’s something short and sweet, but just kind of jogging their memory. You want to send your message. You want to provide a call to action, click this link, call me back, you know, respond with this response to let me know you’re going to do whatever the thing is that I’m asking you to do. And you want to provide them with the opportunity to opt out. So those are sort of four different ways of, of structuring four different pieces of the structure of an optimal text message. You also want to make sure that you’re getting opt-ins and, and there’s some gray area here, right? Because there’s, what’s required. And then there’s what is optimal to make sure that people are aware that they’re opting in, you know, so you want them to opt in to receive the messages from your brand, from the phone number that you’ll be sending in from, at the cadence that you will be sending them about the topic that you’ll be saying, those four things that they’re opting into and, you know, yes, it’s nice to have just a check box, etcetera. But if people are really, if they understand what they’re opting into, they’re much less, they’re less likely to opt out of it later because they’re like, oh yes, I did say that she could text me about this thing. Let me see what it is that she’s talking about me, click on this. Like they’re just much more engaged. So I think those two things are just the main tips for getting started. If you are mindful of the anatomy of your message and include those four pieces, and if you’re mindful of how your opt-ins are captured, and you kind of include those four pieces of opting in your ability to create intimacy with the recipients of your text message shoots way up.

Sonia:  Yeah. Intimacy, intimacy, intimacy. And I, I can’t, I mean, I know this is something that I talk a lot about within my programs. It’s, it’s an important, it’s a core part of the for building an inclusive brand. And I I’m just struck by what you said, brands are like, I don’t know if I want to be so close, but I’m like, if we imagine or think of the people that we’re serving, like our friends, we shouldn’t be scared to have a deeper degree of intimacy with our friends. It’s part of the natural progression of the relationship as you nurture it, as you get to know each other, as you spend time together. And I think we should take that same approach with our customers. More. We treat them like friends, the easier it will be, as you said before, to consider them in different ways that will help you deliver a better experience overall, which will deepen your relationship, which will add more value to them. And it just deepens the relationship overall. And everybody wins when you do it that way. So I’m, I am, I’m convinced, I’m convinced Bianca. This has been super enlightening. Thank you so much for stopping by for sharing your wisdom and, and just for opening our eyes to a completely different way of thinking about text messaging and an also a completely different way to think about inclusion and how they all work together.

Bianca:  Absolutely. And thank you for having me and all you do to help us think more outside of the box to make sure that as we’re crafting our messages and as we’re going about our businesses, that we’re thinking about how to make sure we’re including as many people as possible in that.

Sonia: Absolutely real quick. Also, where can people find you and more information about clicker?

Bianca: Yeah. So we’re available@clicker.com. Clicker is spelled with a K, so K L I C K R R. I spell that one more time. It’s K L I C K R R. So if you go to clicker.com, you can learn more about our texting platform, our software development capabilities and marketing capabilities, as well as sign up for an account and get started. It’s fairly easy to use. So if you’re interested in that, it’s there for you. If you want to get in contact with us to learn more, it’s there for you as well.

K L I C K R R. I have to spell it 10 times because in true tech company fashion, we’ve spelled it, you know, in a unique way. So it’s K L I C K R R clicker.

Sonia: And I will have that in the show notes so people can even eat even more easily. Just click, click the lake and they’ll go straight to it as a thank you so much. Oh, that was cool. We got it. Oh, wait, let me stop the recording. Okay. Stop the recording.